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Backing to line rigging

Questions and Answers about the basics of flyfishing for newbies and the old timers that just can't remember
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Backing to line rigging

Postby 9ft4wt » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:10 am

I just switched out the intermediate line on my 11wt for a sinking line. Since I do not have any extra spools and wanted to be able to change the lines back and forth, I used a loop system.

Here are my questions:

To make a loop in the end of the running line, I doubled it over and did two nail knots with knot sense. I used 50# Tuff instead of mono for the nail knots. Is that going to be a problem? Will the tuff cut through the running line under a lot of pressure and tension (I should be so lucky)?


I used a five turn surgeon's loop for the loop in the backing (50 pound tuff), which gives a single strand loop. Will that suffice or do i need to go back and do a bimini twist?

thanks

9ft4wt

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Re: Backing to line rigging

Postby kendalloz » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:57 am

What you did should work ok. Just make sure the nail knots are not too big so they don't go through the guides well. You can also take some fly tying thread and do a whip-finish on the running line loop to make is smooth and stronger. On the backing, I know folks who use surgeons as you did without a problem. It is not a super strong knot but it should still be stronger than your leader so it would not break first if a fish or snag are gonna break you. But, you might want to double the line again by tying a second surgeons in the loop, to make a double loop. That makes it less lilely that the sharp tuff line will cut through your running line.

The "standard" if there is one for bigger rods and fish is tie a bimini first, then double that again with a surgeons so you have a double loop attaching to the running line. That distributes the load and makes it less likely that the TuFF line will cut through your running line.

Best method is a spliced loop made from braided mono. Bullet proof and nothing gets cut and goes through the guides well...but few around here use it. Probably overkill. I don't know anyone else on the southern Chesapeake Bay who does it but me.

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Re: Backing to line rigging

Postby meatstick » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:29 am

I do, Kendall ... not necessarily because you do (though that is a good enough reason), but because: "once you've lost a trophy fish to connection-failure ... you will naturally take more precautions."

I still use 30 lb dacron backing (old school, have not been spooled yet, but close) and tie a bimini in it, then double over the loop into a double-loop, like you. On the back of the fly-line or running-line I put a (self made) braided mono loop using 50 lb braided mono ... I make them a lot longer than the store bought variety... about 9-10 inches. I secure it to the fly/running line with a one or two 12 lb test mono nail-knot(s). Sometimes coat the nail-knots with Aquaseal for a little added protection against abrasion.

I have also used tying thread to wrap the loop-2-loop connection for a smoother transition thru the guides.

Now, when I'm lucky enough to hook something that will
take me into my backing ... I "hear" and feel next to nothing. A little sound from the bimini only.

Before it was obvious when the backing connection jumped thru the guides ... you'd hear "clack-clack-clack" etc.

Uh, which I still hear on Andy Mill videos (?)

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Re: Backing to line rigging

Postby 9ft4wt » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:09 pm

thanks to both of you.

you know I actually thought about doing another surgeons to double it. think I will go back and do that.

Also like the idea of the whip finish. I assume you just cover the two nail knots to smooth out the overlap?

9ft4wt

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Re: Backing to line rigging

Postby flyinby » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:23 pm

Flyline_I like to make a loop, large enough to pass the reel thru,tie two nail knots and trim the tag end of the looped line with a pair if scissors at an angle to lessen the bump created by the doubling of the line. Then whip finish with gudebrod g thread. add a little uv knot sense and your good to go.. Tarpon, Bluefin,AJ,s, ALberts, never had it fail...

Backing_I use alot of 50 lb. spectrebraid backing, tie a twenty plus turn bimini in it and leave a long loop.... Then, I take a piece of thirty lb. dacron backing and thread the loop of spectre thru it..(I use a splicing tool for this or a bodkin) tie a double surgeons, this creates a sleeved loop connection. Yes, it's overkill and a bit fussy and I have never seen anyone else do it this way, but I have yet to have it cut a flyline......or more importantly, fail ...Hope this didn't confuse .

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Re: Backing to line rigging

Postby 9ft4wt » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:15 am

OK. i tried the whipping on the fly line loop. Seems like it was a lot easier to whip the end of a rope when i was a boy scout. Course that was with rope and twine. Or maybe i am just so old i forgot. Is there a secret?

9ft4wt

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Re: Backing to line rigging

Postby flyinby » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:23 pm

did you wrap the thread around one leg of your bobbin for extra tension? this helps alot.. Think like your starting the thread on a hook at first, pinch the line b/w your thumb and forefinger and pull 10 or so inches from the bobbin. start to swing the bobbin around the line, and squeeze your fingers to push the loops back and forth on the doubled portion, creating a subtle hump of thread. harder to explain than to do, really... Wrap the thread around the leg of your bobbin to create some good tension on the wraps. youll notice the thread will create slight divits in the flyline when its tight enough...............

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Re: Backing to line rigging

Postby BionicSenior » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:10 am

9ft4wt wrote:OK. i tried the whipping on the fly line loop. Seems like it was a lot easier to whip the end of a rope when i was a boy scout. Course that was with rope and twine. Or maybe i am just so old i forgot. Is there a secret?

9ft4wt


Try this which is a good visual of what flyinby said: http://www.flyfisherman.com/skills/lkknots/index8.html
:D~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<'(((((><

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Re: Backing to line rigging

Postby Cutter » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:48 pm

That's how I make my loops, but I use discarded 10# fireline or powerpro from my spinning rods. Spool 50yds of that on a bobin and it will last for a lot of loops. I keep it in a small kit with a wire loop, sharp scissors, and some UV Knot Sense in my boat bag. If a loop gets chewed up on a big fish, I can make a new loop in about 5 minutes on the water.

For the backing, I like the bimini doubled with a surgeons knot.

Like most things, there are 50 different ways........
The world is your oyster-
So show up with a knife and know how to shuck.

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Re: Backing to line rigging

Postby 9ft4wt » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:14 am

That looks manageable. I am sure it will take a little practice but it appears easier than what I was trying to do.

thanks

9ft4wt

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